You're Wrong Mr. Jarvis
Please read the link above before reading my comments.
What Mr. Jarvis seems to be missing is this. There is very much a values war going on, and has been for some time. It did not start with the election of George W. Bush. I prefer to call it a values war instead of a culture war because that is what it is to me. It is a clash of what values this country is going to hold, and not one necessarily based simply on religious association or party affliation. It is not simply the evagelical religious that voted for George Bush.
In the last couple years I have went from what I considered a fairly moderate person who had in the past voted both Republican and Democrat to one that is much, much more conservative. The reasons for that are not because the Republicans have appealed to me so much that I opted to change. It has ever so much more to do with the liberal side pushing me into it.
And how did they manage to do that? By doing assinine things like intimidating schools into having programs that will not even allow an instrumental of "Silent Night" or any other traditional Christmas program. By cheering the ACLU as they seek to remove any tiny cross, any public form of CHRISTIAN worship. By screaming tolerance at me while busily being intolerant of my beliefs.
We may not be setting fire to one another on the streets as has happened in other countries, but make no mistake Mr. Jarvis, the values war is out there and is very hot right now. I don't expect it to get cooler any time soon. Right now the fight is over Christmas, as well it should be. Christmas and Easter are the two most important celebrations of Christians. As you count your blessing to live here, read the words of John Adams.
It is the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated seasons, to worship the SUPREME BEING, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping GOD in the manner most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience; or for his religious profession or sentiments; provided he doth not disturb the public peace, or obstruct others in their religious worship.
John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776
So while you count your blessing, perhaps it would be suitable for you to read the founding fathers and understand what freedom of speech and freedom of religion actually is? In an effort to be "tolerant" and not to "offend" others sensiblities the ability of Christians to worship publicly is being restrained. Does a school having a traditional Christmas concert disturb the peace? But does it not obstruct the Christians from their religious worship? No one is rounded up and forced to go to a Christmas concert at the local elementary school, if it bothers someone to hear "O Holy Night" than perhaps they should exercise the freedom that many died to provide, and not go?
Mr. Jarvis says "There is no religous war in America. That ended more than two centuries ago. And now we enjoy the benefits of that struggle. We should be grateful for that and stop squandering it with squabbles. "
Mr. Jarvis it is not just squabbles. It is a matter of whether Christians are allowed to have a religious celebration unmolested. Christmas is not simply a retail season. Why may I ask, is it too much to expect a celebration based on the birth of Christ, be celebrated by the adherents of Christianity publicly? I am not expecting the government to declare all must celebrate Christmas anytime soon, so again anyone who opts out is more than welcome to do so.
The base reality is that this is a country in which the vast majority identify themselves as Christians, and though many are bound and determined not to let majority rule, the founders most certainly envisioned this republic to work that way.
"If we are faithful to our country, if we acquiesce, with good will, in the decisions of the majority, and the nation moves in mass in the same direction, although it may not be that which every individual thinks best, we have nothing to fear from any quarter." --Thomas Jefferson to Virginia Baptists, 1808. ME 16:321
Public opinion sets bounds to every government, and is the real sovereign in every free one.
James Madison, Public Opinion, December 19, 1791
This is not simply about Christmas either Mr. Jarvis. It is about the values and character of this country. Again in a country that is predominantly Christian but with radical elements that are determined to take this country from the words of it's founders including those that point specificly to God having a hand in establishing this country or in thanking God for his blessings that define this country, than one of the first things that those radical groups must do is to denigrate and sweep to the back room the major celebrations of that which the founders treasured. By and large, Sir, the founders were Christians and the God they spoke of was the Christian God. If we back down and call what is going on a squabble, then those who seek to completely remodel this country based on their own desires will win. And that is not rule of majority by any means. It is a rule put into place by fear and intimidation based on being politically correct and Multiculturalist.
It is this very agenda that has made me into the conservative that I am. I believe deeply in the words and beliefs of the founding fathers, and the more the other side diverges from that the more I will fight them. Those founders believed that rights flowed not from the government, or any man made institition but from the creator himself.
It is not much ado about nothing. The reality is that Christmas is a Christian celebration, and that I and millions of other Christians have a right to be able to publicly express it. If we are going to instruct our children into Ramadon in a very public manner and as happened in California, to force them to participate then why it is too much to ask for a Christmas celebration that no one is even forced to attend? I'll tell you why, because it does not fit the agenda of a radical left determined to force their way of life onto everyone else.
It must stop and it must stop here. There are many like me who have finally had enough and we are willing to do some pushing of our own now.
Red
What Mr. Jarvis seems to be missing is this. There is very much a values war going on, and has been for some time. It did not start with the election of George W. Bush. I prefer to call it a values war instead of a culture war because that is what it is to me. It is a clash of what values this country is going to hold, and not one necessarily based simply on religious association or party affliation. It is not simply the evagelical religious that voted for George Bush.
In the last couple years I have went from what I considered a fairly moderate person who had in the past voted both Republican and Democrat to one that is much, much more conservative. The reasons for that are not because the Republicans have appealed to me so much that I opted to change. It has ever so much more to do with the liberal side pushing me into it.
And how did they manage to do that? By doing assinine things like intimidating schools into having programs that will not even allow an instrumental of "Silent Night" or any other traditional Christmas program. By cheering the ACLU as they seek to remove any tiny cross, any public form of CHRISTIAN worship. By screaming tolerance at me while busily being intolerant of my beliefs.
We may not be setting fire to one another on the streets as has happened in other countries, but make no mistake Mr. Jarvis, the values war is out there and is very hot right now. I don't expect it to get cooler any time soon. Right now the fight is over Christmas, as well it should be. Christmas and Easter are the two most important celebrations of Christians. As you count your blessing to live here, read the words of John Adams.
It is the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated seasons, to worship the SUPREME BEING, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping GOD in the manner most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience; or for his religious profession or sentiments; provided he doth not disturb the public peace, or obstruct others in their religious worship.
John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776
So while you count your blessing, perhaps it would be suitable for you to read the founding fathers and understand what freedom of speech and freedom of religion actually is? In an effort to be "tolerant" and not to "offend" others sensiblities the ability of Christians to worship publicly is being restrained. Does a school having a traditional Christmas concert disturb the peace? But does it not obstruct the Christians from their religious worship? No one is rounded up and forced to go to a Christmas concert at the local elementary school, if it bothers someone to hear "O Holy Night" than perhaps they should exercise the freedom that many died to provide, and not go?
Mr. Jarvis says "There is no religous war in America. That ended more than two centuries ago. And now we enjoy the benefits of that struggle. We should be grateful for that and stop squandering it with squabbles. "
Mr. Jarvis it is not just squabbles. It is a matter of whether Christians are allowed to have a religious celebration unmolested. Christmas is not simply a retail season. Why may I ask, is it too much to expect a celebration based on the birth of Christ, be celebrated by the adherents of Christianity publicly? I am not expecting the government to declare all must celebrate Christmas anytime soon, so again anyone who opts out is more than welcome to do so.
The base reality is that this is a country in which the vast majority identify themselves as Christians, and though many are bound and determined not to let majority rule, the founders most certainly envisioned this republic to work that way.
"If we are faithful to our country, if we acquiesce, with good will, in the decisions of the majority, and the nation moves in mass in the same direction, although it may not be that which every individual thinks best, we have nothing to fear from any quarter." --Thomas Jefferson to Virginia Baptists, 1808. ME 16:321
Public opinion sets bounds to every government, and is the real sovereign in every free one.
James Madison, Public Opinion, December 19, 1791
This is not simply about Christmas either Mr. Jarvis. It is about the values and character of this country. Again in a country that is predominantly Christian but with radical elements that are determined to take this country from the words of it's founders including those that point specificly to God having a hand in establishing this country or in thanking God for his blessings that define this country, than one of the first things that those radical groups must do is to denigrate and sweep to the back room the major celebrations of that which the founders treasured. By and large, Sir, the founders were Christians and the God they spoke of was the Christian God. If we back down and call what is going on a squabble, then those who seek to completely remodel this country based on their own desires will win. And that is not rule of majority by any means. It is a rule put into place by fear and intimidation based on being politically correct and Multiculturalist.
It is this very agenda that has made me into the conservative that I am. I believe deeply in the words and beliefs of the founding fathers, and the more the other side diverges from that the more I will fight them. Those founders believed that rights flowed not from the government, or any man made institition but from the creator himself.
It is not much ado about nothing. The reality is that Christmas is a Christian celebration, and that I and millions of other Christians have a right to be able to publicly express it. If we are going to instruct our children into Ramadon in a very public manner and as happened in California, to force them to participate then why it is too much to ask for a Christmas celebration that no one is even forced to attend? I'll tell you why, because it does not fit the agenda of a radical left determined to force their way of life onto everyone else.
It must stop and it must stop here. There are many like me who have finally had enough and we are willing to do some pushing of our own now.
Red
posted by redcrabtree | 2:07 AM
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